About Our Guest: Emily Hirsekorn

Coming out of law school, my career was all that mattered. I blamed everyone else for my problems and failed to prioritize self-care. Relationships suffered, and my health rapidly deteriorated. Knowing things had to change, I flipped my life upside down, started taking major risks to realign with my deepest desires, and redesigned my career, personal life, and surroundings from the ground up. Over the years, I realized hard work wasn’t enough for a fulfilling life. It took some major perspective shifts, the encouragement of my coaches, and openness to new possibilities to live a value-aligned life by design.

This week on the Chasing Happiness Podcast, we have special guest Emily Hirsekorn.

Emily Hirsekorn empowers ambitious professionals to navigate their careers with confidence, develop as conscious leaders, and integrate work and life so they can regain a sense of control, purpose, and joy. Emily is an ICF credentialed coach using the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching’s Energy Leadership™ framework to help folks maximize their energy and minimize stress as they pursue their professional goals.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to manage your energy at work so you can perform at your best; how to take charge of your career; why it’s important to be clear on what success means to you personally; and how to create rituals that will help support your values and goals in life.

Looking to Share Your Story? Be a Guest on the Show

Podcast Transcript

How to Balance Life for Ambitious Professionals with Emily Hirsekorn

[00:00:00] Ryan: Hey guys, Ryan DeMent from Chasing Happiness Podcast. I hope you guys are having a great day this week on the podcast. We have Emily Hirsekorn HERSA, corn. I’m gonna get it right. It’s close. I butcher, but I will keep on going. Emily is a career confidence coach, but she’s working on a couple of things that she’s gonna share in the actual episode, Emily, welcome to the.

[00:00:30] Ryan: Thank

[00:00:30] Emily: you pleasure to be here. Happy for you to butcher my name. I, we were just talking earlier. I love it like playfulness and we’re laughing already. It’s I could tell it’s a part of what you do. It’s certainly a part of my work too. So having fun with all the things, taking no offenses. It’s a great way to kick it.

[00:00:50] Emily: It’s the

[00:00:51] Ryan: the only way to live life. If you take life so seriously, how are you gonna get anything done? I saw a post and I digress and we’ll get in, we’ll get into who you are, but someone was talking about living with regret and everything that pretty much goes on in our lives. And he’s probably older was probably in his sixties.

[00:01:08] Ryan: He was, it was a blog post and he was interviewing a kid that was in his twenties. And I say kid, ’cause I’m almost 50. He asked him a question that I ask all the time, what’s more, valuable time or money? The kid said money and it’s done we forget that time is the most critical asset we have because you never get it back.

[00:01:28] Ryan: We don’t know how long we’re gonna be on this planet.

[00:01:31] Emily: Yeah and perspective, right? I think it’s interesting. You highlighted the ages? Yes. When you’re young, that’s what you’re going after. I’ve been thinking a lot about this. Super open here. Happy to share my age too. So I’m 37 and young. I’m so young.

[00:01:47] Emily: I know. Oh, thank you. It’s sub circles. That’s. I’ll at that weird stage and sub circles on the youngest sub circles. I’m the oldest, but definitely that I’m starting to get to that mid middle age. Part of my life, where you’re thinking about things differently, little sets of mortality seeping in. And I think about that.

[00:02:06] Emily: Yeah. When I was young, I never thought about that stuff. Yeah. My career meant everything to me. Money was on my mind too. I gotta go get a great job, make a lot of money, have that sense of security for me and my future family. So I get a 20 year old. I get it.

[00:02:26] Ryan: But we’re going to, we’re going down.

[00:02:28] Ryan: Rabbit holes, man. You’re one of the few, the few guests. I just go right down a rabbit hole before introducing you. So let’s get you introduced first. Sure. And then we’ll go down rabbit holes. So Emily tell the listeners a little about who you are and then we’ll get onto your journey in some rabbit holes.

[00:02:41] Ryan: Sure

[00:02:41] Emily: And happy to lead the way down those two. So I came out of the legal field. I practiced law for just a couple of years. That’s part of my story. Very high achiever, all of my life in school, undergrad and law school that served. Really well, beating yourself up for not being perfect works really well when you’re trying to get good grades and you get back in there, and you keep working, you don’t do anything else. And same thing early on with your career in those high stress industries. So that was it very early on. It failed me. So I used to work independently on my own when I was in school. I did not know how to work with other humans. So that really was a struggle for me when I got into the real world and I couldn’t just hole up and do the work by myself.

[00:03:33] Emily: I depended of everybody else. So that happened. Failing marriage. And I got very sick and a lot of things are coming out nowadays about autoimmune diseases and issues being connected to stress levels. Wow. Actually three autoimmune diseases that really manifested over the years, but it started when I was in law school.

[00:03:55] Emily: And got progressively worse from there. So really tough spot, totally changed up everything. And shifted in terms of my career, really finding more of what I felt like I was meant to be doing. And ultimately I worked in law career development for a university for. And ultimately made my way into coaching and realized, oh, this is what I’ve been looking for the whole time.

[00:04:22] Emily: I just didn’t have the language for it. So to wrap it up, In undergrad. I did research with a really significant professor in the field of positive psychology on hope, and that’s all about goals. And I knew I wanted to help people achieve their goals, but again, no one was talking about coaching at the time.

[00:04:42] Emily: So coming full circle to that was really powerful for me, really interesting experience. And then in terms of. Who I’m currently serving. I do support a lot of lawyers because of my network. Lawyers trust lawyers. They’re like you get it. You’ve been there. And I also been again doing that work in the field for years.

[00:05:04] Emily: And then I’m working with other folks too. Mid-level managers, a variety of different, again, high stress industries. I have a couple of clients, for example, who are in NFL management and they’ve got, football season. Yeah, football season’s coming up. They’re like, yeah, we’ve got very busy seasons things fluctuate.

[00:05:24] Emily: It is interesting to see though at the end of the day, it’s the same shit across the board. People struggle with work life balance. People struggle to take care of themselves. Intend to prioritize everybody else or their work over themselves. And people struggle with relationships and navigating the different dynamics in the workforce.

[00:05:50] Emily: That’s the nutshell.

[00:05:53] Ryan: The nutshell, but there’s so many rabbit holes. You can go down with your story. So choose your

[00:05:58] Emily: out of bed shirt. it?

[00:06:00] Ryan: It’s a great story. Let’s talk about it. You started when did you go to law school? How old were you?

[00:06:05] Emily: So I went straight through right after undergrad and I, it was interesting timing actually.

[00:06:11] Emily: So went in 2007, things looked great. I went because it was a safe career. Didn’t know what to do with my psychology degree. And then 2008 was yeah. Yes, the market tanked. So I graduated in the worst year, 2010 for law school graduates in recent history. And I did very well in school, so I, if I had stayed where I went to school, I probably would’ve had a job, but I decided to move to San Diego with an ex at the time.

[00:06:42] Emily: And. Yeah, it was a tough time fighting a job, but I did it because I was relentless and I networked my tush off

[00:06:51] Ryan: but so let’s back up. You networked your tushy off. And that is that’s one skillset. A lot of people don’t have we have this instant gratification culture going on in, on the internet.

[00:07:06] Ryan: I’m gonna be an instant gratification type of a person and say this, I saw this statistic and we can go back and forth on it. One out of four gen Zers. Think they’re gonna be a social influencer in their lives. One in four, 20%. Yeah,

[00:07:24] Emily: look, it’s the same. It’s not far from the coaching industry. There’s all these promises about work from Bali, and work for, I’ve got on my shelf the four hour work week, right?

[00:07:36] Emily: Work a few hours a week and, make millions, all these things that were being sold on the internet too. I think it is a really hard time to be. And as a coach, it’s my job to help people dream and balance it with realism, right? Yeah. We ha we have to make sure that we’re doing both because a lot of the folks I support, especially these hyper rational is actually my like biggest saboteur.

[00:08:04] Emily: I’ve taken assessments on this stuff, but same thing with a lot of lawyers, hyper rational folks who play is safe. Don’t wanna take risks. So I have to push them on the other end of the spectrum to dream. Don’t go let go of that. And what can we do in the meantime, how can we work towards both a better practical, short term solution and also that bigger dream.

[00:08:28] Ryan: So I’ve gotta ask, and I don’t think we talked about on the pre-call, but I’m gonna ask how do you deal with those a-hole attorneys that want to be a client?

[00:08:37] Emily: This is so funny. Those folks don’t reach out to me. So my marketing, I must be doing a good job with my marketing.

[00:08:45] Ryan: you? You are because you are niche down properly, and that is crazy.

[00:08:49] Ryan: It’s true. But the funny thing is on my end of that business, they all reach out to me every single one of them. But it’s what I’m known for from the referral base that I work from. So at the end, exactly, it is. It’s what, who knows you. It’s what I, it’s what I get, but yeah. This for me personally is tough.

[00:09:08] Ryan: Also is cuz I’m trying to niche down on another side of my business that we’ve started through our nonprofit is financial coaching, but also change coaching and being . I don’t know how to say it. Softer, less direct. Yeah. Is not in my DNA in it’s hard. Yeah. And so I have to explain to people. If you’re looking for somebody to hold you and say, it’s gonna be okay, I’m not your person because I’m gonna hold you accountable.

[00:09:35] Ryan: , I’m gonna make you do the work , I will be your biggest cheerleader. I’ll be your supporter. I will do whatever it takes I can do in my power. But at the end of the day, you’ve gotta do the work. and I’m starting to get to that point where I’m niched down to where we’re starting to see those people roll in.

[00:09:51] Ryan: And it was funny as I in short story, and then I’ll let it go. I had a person come in and he basically said, I saw your intro video. And at first I thought you were an asshole and it ended up being, you’re actually a really cool guy. Once I get to know you and I’m like, , I’m there. Yeah. That works. I’m totally there.

[00:10:10] Ryan: And it worked and that’s when you know, you’re there and that’s cool that you’re not attracting any a-holes into your business. That’s awesome. I,

[00:10:19] Emily: yeah, that’s never happened. Which, which is awesome. And. Look also, it is nice that as a business owner doing this type of work, we’re assessing fit, right?

[00:10:30] Emily: , it’s important. I’m sure you have some version of a consult too. I certainly do consults before engaging with folks on a one to one level. And I think that’s really valuable. I also think I love this topic because I think it’s so important for folks to understand it is critical that you find the right fit coach.

[00:10:48] Emily: I don’t agree. That coaching is coaching. I don’t think it’s all the same thing. And not only because we all have different training and backgrounds I always tell people. I’m like a motivational speaker and that’s a really different dimension to coaching. That’s not really the same thing as coaching.

[00:11:07] Emily: But I do that if you can’t tell for my energy I’m not. Often I have done them, but I’m not often doing like meditation sessions on my coaching calls. We can talk. Yeah, we could talk meditation. I have a lot of clients who do it. I do it. But that’s not normally part of my shtick. So I think it’s such an important topic for consumer.

[00:11:31] Emily: To be thinking about who is the right coach for me, what style is going to motivate me best? What you’re talking about that is so valuable for high performers to have someone I’ve had plenty of people tell me I’m also very direct. I’ve had plenty of people tell me when I say I’ve done some sample coaching sessions in the past, I said, what do you notice about the coaching?

[00:11:52] Emily: How’s it different from a typical conversation? And they’re like You called me out on my shit. Yeah we’re identifying some things that maybe you’re not thinking about so much. Yes. And that can be really valuable for people who are seeking that. And don’t have other folks in their life where it’s a comfortable relationship for that.

[00:12:11] Emily: So it’s definitely unique relationship,

[00:12:14] Ryan: but you go, we go to the opposite side and we’re going down a rabbit hole and we’ll have to come back is then you have. Whether they’re a high performer or not. You have those individuals, at least from my experience and what I’ve unfortunately attracted in. I don’t need a coach.

[00:12:30] Ryan: Then why are you calling me? That’s and those individuals automatically just doubt you up to the hill and back, and my thought process to them. If you reached out to. You know that there’s something in your life that you need to change, but you need help with it. And you’re looking for somebody to guide you.

[00:12:51] Ryan: If that’s the case, then we might be a match. But if you’re looking for somebody to do the work, I’m not it. And then they’ll come. Yeah. Consultant. Yeah. And they’ll come back with a different answer. And but that type of individual. Has a lot more baggage going on in life. Other than just change that I can’t fix, cuz I am not a psychologist nor am I a counselor.

[00:13:15] Ryan: And I, that’s why I work with some and hand them off but those individuals typically will have something else going on. And that’s when I ask them, Hey, if you have something else going on, I do have resources. Don’t have to use them, but here’s some other online resources to go to. And that seems to be helping too.

[00:13:31] Ryan: But before. I just, I would shut ’em down. It’s I don’t

[00:13:34] Emily: have, I think coaches all differ too, in terms of the level of buy-in that they’re willing to attempt. So for some, I know people are like, it’s a hell yes or a hell, no. And like you just let me know and then we’ll move on from there.

[00:13:51] Emily: I think a lot of others. Are really into the buy-in idea. And I have no opinion on this, by the way, I actually think all approaches have their pros and cons. But I think it’s an interesting approach too, where this idea that. Like you said they called for a reason. Correct. So maybe intuitively deep down, they know they need support, but they’re having trouble coming to terms with it or whatever it may be.

[00:14:17] Emily: Sometimes they need some help getting to that place where they can recognize that. So I know some folks who do dig a little bit deeper and I have a lot of respect for that, that too. I usually get some folks asking things like, because in, in the legal field, there’s so much anxiety and depression.

[00:14:37] Emily: Folks asking, I’ve been diagnosed with anxiety and depression is coaching also appropriate for me, or even folks saying, how do I know if I need coaching or therapy? So that’s an important conversation where you can really make that distinction. Like you said, you’re not, we’re not here to address clinical mental health issues.

[00:14:56] Emily: But really figuring out what goals do you have, how can we help you thrive and move forward? So that definitely comes up pretty often.

[00:15:06] Ryan: So I wanna go back to some of your story, but I wanna finish that first. How do you address that when you have somebody come in that tells you that, they’re depressed and so forth and wanna go through the whole coaching realm, how what’s that?

[00:15:19] Ryan: What’s that intake look like for. .

[00:15:22] Emily: Yeah. So one thing I believe, I know all coaches have different backgrounds. I do believe that some sort of training is important. The coach training program that I completed a couple of years ago when I made my shift. We are trained to identify some red flags where someone might not be quite ready for coaching.

[00:15:42] Emily: And again, people have different theories on this, whether everyone can benefit . But but I do think that’s important. If someone is chronically depressed, for example, it’s gonna be really hard to benefit from coaching where we’re setting goals, trying to hold them accountable, getting them to move.

[00:15:58] Emily: When they’re having trouble doing much of anything. That’s something to be thinking about. And I’ve had this conversation a lot and I’ve never, it’s never been ill received. People have always been really appreciative good of having an open conversation about it. I also talk to people about I’ve plenty of folks who see a therapist and a coach.

[00:16:19] Emily: I’m a big fan of therapy. So I do the same thing. Use my therapist for, more kind of psychoanalytic childhood stuff and personal relationships. And we talk about attachment theory and all of that good stuff. And then, coaching is more the way I use it is more business focused and setting goals for myself making shifts but really concrete outcomes.

[00:16:41] Emily: So I also think explaining the process. is really helpful for people to understand. Most people don’t know a damn thing about it. So explaining to them every single session we’re gonna come together, we’re gonna set a goal. You’re gonna have action items when you leave. So it’s very action oriented.

[00:17:00] Emily: We’re of course, figuring out how you’re getting in your own way. And we’re gonna clear that stuff out, but but it’s pretty quick. And so we’re moving. So that’s, a very superficial description, but having that honest conversation with folks,

[00:17:13] Ryan: and it’s the honest conversation that needs to be had.

[00:17:16] Ryan: It’s refreshing. But it’s also, unfortunately, some people it’s tough to have that conversation. Sure. And like you said, coaching is different across the board and we. I’ve experienced people that I’ve looked for a mentor or coach. Oops, sorry

[00:17:34] Emily: about the dog. That’s

[00:17:35] Ryan: That they actually are just a bunch of. Just not they’re not a coach, they’re just looking to get a paycheck and that’s unfortunate. And I think that’s where some of the things that happen in the industry coaching wise, stems from, but building that relationship up front, like you, the intake that you’re talking about, you’re taking the time to get to know them and understand where they’re going is huge.

[00:17:59] Ryan: And. There’s quite a bit of coaches that don’t even do that. Yeah. I

[00:18:03] Emily: mean, I, it doesn’t even end there. I have in my agreement that I have people review and sign initially acknowledgement that they’re not using coaching in lieu of mental health services. I have something in there that if they are in therapy, their therapist has approved of them using a coach.

[00:18:20] Emily: So I really do go to that length. And then the other thing I always tell people because I’m very. I have, a structure, but I’m also flexible. And I tell them if at any time some concerns pop up and this has happened on occasion, it’s been rare. But whether we think things have changed and maybe it becomes, it’s not appropriate anymore, we’ll have that conversation then too.

[00:18:45] Emily: So I also make a parent kind of an extension of what you were just talking about. In terms of ethics, coaching, ethics. My point is, I’m not trying to trap you into a long term coaching package, and then you’re just losing your money. If things don’t work out, I have a guarantee and a refund policy, so I think that’s a big, important piece. And look, that’s also the business side of things we’re trained to, the craft. Oh no, this dog ,

[00:19:15] Ryan: we’re trained. Let’s. Let’s see your puppy. What you got there?

[00:19:18] Emily: This is leafy. My giant one is in his CR right now because his bark is much louder. If you can believe that

[00:19:27] Ryan: cute.

[00:19:27] Ryan: I, I have a dog, but he’s in my room. He’s away. Cuz he’s a big dog and his bark is big oh, what kind of dog? He’s a chocolate lab. His name is moose.

[00:19:37] Emily: Oh, so I have an AIAN shepherd. Great. Pese who’s oh, wow. Yes. He’s giant Andre. The giant. Yes, Andre.

[00:19:48] Ryan: Cool. How much does Andre

[00:19:50] Emily: weigh?

[00:19:51] Emily: He’s about one 30 big boy. He’s a big boy. Big boy. Yes, he’s awesome. But he has a very loud bark. So anyways I think this is an important topic though, for people to be thinking a little bit more about the ethics of coaching, but also the business side. So for coaches who are starting out, I think we’re encouraged in this industry to just get out there and do the damn thing.

[00:20:13] Emily: And I think there’s a lot of value in that. And I’m a firm believer in simultaneously also taking care of the business side and things that are really important

[00:20:23] Ryan: too, by all means. That’s the best thing to do is you’ve got both sides covered cuz ultimately if you don’t.

[00:20:31] Ryan: Unfortunately, something will go wrong and it’s not worth it. It’s your personal brand, it’s yourself. That’s out there and you’ve put all that work in and it falls apart. And that, I mean that we could go down another rabbit hole for entrepreneurship and being able to set your business up. Correct.

[00:20:47] Ryan: Making sure that you’ve got all the pieces lined up on both sides, whether it be the business, your personal brand in both lining up. It’s tough. I wanna go back shift back to law school. You graduate you’re networking your ass off. You got yourself a job in San Diego. What kind of goes from there.

[00:21:05] Ryan: And then we’ll go down that, that path and see where it takes us. Sure.

[00:21:09] Emily: So it, it was interesting because when I was in law school, first of all, going to law school was an interesting choice because I didn’t really know what to do with the psych degree. I decided I didn’t wanna get my PhD because that was like, Eight more years of school.

[00:21:26] Emily: And when you’re young, that sounds crazy. And you’re not guaranteed to come out, making millions. So I was like I’ll just go to law school for three years and come out, making a lot of money. That literally was how I made the decision. So I went, I did really well, but I had no idea what lawyers did.

[00:21:41] Emily: No clue had never been in a corporate office before. I had a great gig during law school with a big firm in Sacramento and I did well, and I also started noticing the stressors. And then when I moved the job that I ultimately went into, I had no experience in the field. But my network pulled through for me and through a series of events.

[00:22:06] Emily: I ended up in education law. And so it had this interesting, unique promise of working defense, which I wanted to do. So a firm where I was making pretty good money but also doing something for the greater good . Now I was on the defense side, so certain matters. Felt good. For example, the labor and employment work I did, where we were helping the schools get folks out of the classroom or off campuses who were doing stupid stuff.

[00:22:37] Emily: Who were not treating the students. There was, a custodian who was drinking, like stuff like that. So that felt really good. I really struggled with the special ed and the student side of things being on the defense because like mediations, for example, there literally could be a child with special needs on the other side of the table.

[00:22:57] Emily: Wow. And I’ve always been very passionate about social justice. And so it, that was hard for me. And look, I fully acknowledge, I think it was situational and I fully acknowledged that I had. Poor self awareness in some respects. I wasn’t fully supported. I was lonely because I was in a new city with my ex and didn’t have a friend base.

[00:23:24] Emily: I didn’t have a community. And frankly, I didn’t realize how important that was to me until years later. I emphasized it, oh, I gotta meet people. I gotta do this. But. Now that is my number one goal. Constantly in everything that I’m doing, how can I establish community for myself and for my family?

[00:23:43] Emily: So that was a really big challenge for me. I was not in therapy. I didn’t not have a coach, so I just left. I quit my job before I had anything else lined up, which you know, back in the day was a big no-no. And, I made my way into other jobs because again, that relentless networking and I knew I’d be fine.

[00:24:02] Emily: And then ultimately I got into law school, career development, and that was a really great step in the right direction for me. I see what I do now as an extension of that work, but really great fit. Just. Longer term, bigger picture. It didn’t make sense. It’s, those are dead end jobs and and I wanted to ultimately work for myself, but great step in the right direction, which I feel like is what I’m helping a lot of folks figure out, everyone’s thinking about that ultimate job, but it’s okay, let’s also move in the right direction

[00:24:35] Ryan: if you need to move.

[00:24:36] Ryan: Gotta move forward. Yeah,

[00:24:37] Emily: for sure. Yes. So that’s in brief what was going on. And then I had a couple of babies and the health issues really flared up. I was super, super sick and at the time I was taking some time off of work. I was teaching and gosh, when I was really sick, I would. I would have these like spells where I would be have a fever and night sweats and could hardly walk.

[00:25:04] Emily: And then I had to go teach a class a couple days later and I would get it done. And then I would go back home and was just miserable. And finally figured out what was going on a few months later. And. Thankfully modern medicine has helped put that stuff in remission, but it’s stuff that still comes up.

[00:25:20] Emily: So that’s something I actually don’t talk much about. But is definitely something that’s interesting. Folks who ha leaders, especially folks who are expected to be leading teams and they’re actually struggling themselves with health issues or invisible disabilities that people might not even

[00:25:35] Ryan: know of.

[00:25:37] Ryan: But that’s all part of being a leader. Is humanizing the leader and it’s something that I spent 25 years in, in the finance world before I, I decided to dive into entrepreneurship. But the thing that I can tell you from being in corporate America versus entrepreneurship is, and I think we talked about this corporate America never taught me how to fish.

[00:26:02] Ryan: It kept me fed every two weeks. Yeah, no worries. Yeah. And no blame on them. Blame on me, shame on me. That’s why I had two failed businesses before I got to my third business, cuz I didn’t know how to fish. So when I left corporate America, I had no clue how to fish and sustain myself, but I knew how to lead people because I led 2000, 2,500 people.

[00:26:26] Ryan: I, it was trial by fire. Yeah. But I learned and the way. I don’t know how to describe it. It, it happened early on in my career where one of my bosses came in and said, you suck as a manager and you need to become a leader. So the first thing you need to learn is put brain and gear before mouth opens.

[00:26:48] Ryan: And I was like, this is young twenties, and I’m thinking, yeah, I don’t know what you mean, type of thing. And he’s in his late fifties, early sixties at the. And it took me some time to figure that out and understand that and that kind of what kicked everything off is. It’s all about the people that you surround yourself with, whether you’re your, their boss or not.

[00:27:07] Ryan: If you’re able to bring those people into the fold and share the vision, share the ideas you’re gonna get collaboration to where people are gonna start following you. And you go from a manager to a leader but you also. Effectively change the way who you are and how you out outwardly portray yourself one and two.

[00:27:27] Ryan: How your dynamic and I say dynamics, cuz I’m gonna back up on that is the dynamics come out because there’s times where I’m just so direct. People don’t wanna hear it because I’m not gonna put up with people’s BS and there’s sometimes I can sugarcoat it, but I don’t think I should. I just turn that switch on, say, okay, I’m gonna do.

[00:27:47] Ryan: Because I know the audience and I think that’s where you become. That’s where you learn your value as a leader, because managers are just gonna be people that tell you what to do. They’re not gonna be that person. That’s gonna show you how to do it. Or they’ve been in the trenches before and they’re dynamic.

[00:28:04] Ryan: They’re able to switch those different, pull those different levers within themselves to help guide, but also lead. My goal in life was always to how many managers that work for me. Could I get promoted effectively, get promoted and grow through the ranks and become leaders and not managers. And that’s how I really weighed my leadership skills.

[00:28:29] Ryan: Yeah, I had in, in the two last businesses, they were fortune 25 companies that I worked in. I had a 25% Rate of success when it came to leadership highest in my group. And it was like, okay, I’m doing something and it was fun. And that’s what that’s the one piece I would say entrepreneurship is different.

[00:28:47] Ryan: Unless I decide to pull up a billion dollar company here anytime.

[00:28:52] Emily: that’s the next one, right?

[00:28:54] Ryan: It’s the next one? There’s time. I do miss. I do miss leading, thousands of people because I get to impact so many more people. And I think that’s where the podcast came in through all this I ramble on, but that’s where it is the impact.

[00:29:07] Ryan: My voice gets out there and I feel like I can not just touch one person. I can touch multiple.

[00:29:13] Emily: Yeah. So much there, the two big things that are coming to mind for me. Number one, one word for what you’re talking about. Ready? We can par it all down to empowerment. Yes. A leader empowers other people manager does not.

[00:29:27] Emily: So the work still gets done. However, when we’re thinking about the bigger picture, the bigger outcomes business outcomes at the end of the day, Empowerment helps with engagement, fulfillment, retention those business outcomes. So huge difference. I think it’s very easy to get shortsighted and say, just get this shit done.

[00:29:54] Emily: Yeah. Just do or just do it this way and not have a collaborative conversation that takes more time. So it takes that B you have to get people to buy in. To understand it’s really short term versus long. Can you see that taking a little bit more time up front, you are making an investment in better, big picture of long term outcomes.

[00:30:19] Emily: So that’s number one. The other thing is I use the Institute for professional excellence in coaching or IPEC. I use their energy leadership framework. Exactly what you’re talking about, higher level consciousness. That’s what those leaders are using when you can choose, like you said the energy that you’re showing up with when you can choose, do I wanna be direct here?

[00:30:46] Emily: Do I wanna sugar coat and why that takes high level consciousness? When people are just managing. And not thinking really not tapping into intuition, just none of it, right? Yeah. You’re just going through the motions and getting shit done. Not so conscious. That’s not a way to live consciously.

[00:31:05] Emily: And again, you’re operating with lower level energy. It’s more stress inducing. It’s fear based. Oh yeah, it doesn’t have those good long term outcomes. So I love that idea that you were describing of choosing your energy. That is the basis of my practice. Teaching people tools. To learn how to shift their energy on demand if I’m showing up.

[00:31:30] Emily: And this is what I’m thinking in this situation, and it’s not serving me well , what’s a more productive way of thinking and then your outcomes will follow. So we are on the same page with all of that.

[00:31:43] Ryan: The funny, not, I don’t wanna say funny, I shouldn’t say that the. The situation I come across in my referral business.

[00:31:50] Ryan: My referral coaching business is the person that’s calling me is unfortunately in a very bad spot and their back is up against the wall. And if their back is up against the wall, there’s only, I only know two outcomes either they go out of business or they stay in business. There’s nothing in between. I don’t, there’s no way I can sugarcoat.

[00:32:11] Ryan: and most of the time when they’re coming to me they’re like, okay, they’re gonna be a little bit of an a-hole and then I warm ’em up and I tune ’em up a little bit and say, Hey, if you’re coming to me either, you’re at the end. And they’re there and you want to change or two, you’re trying to get a deal done through somebody.

[00:32:27] Ryan: I know. And you’ve gotta do X, Y, and Z steps to get going. all fine and dandy. The problem is these individuals will think at times that I’m going to do the work for them. And I come back to it is that’s where I can’t differentiate between sugarcoating and being direct. I only know to be direct in that situation.

[00:32:48] Ryan: And I don’t know, and I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. I’m just telling you, that’s the only way I know to handle those situations when you’re coming to me, when your back’s against the. I only know one way and that’s turning the engine on and going full tilt and figuring out what the problem is, digging deep, and then understanding that there’s gonna be some outcomes that are gonna, that will transpire once we get to a place to where your back is not up against the wall.

[00:33:14] Ryan: And we’re a little bit safer. I can pull back on being that person that’s driving you or pushing you to say, I. Work with you a little bit more. And I think that’s a balancing act whe whether it’s coaching or not in life. And I’m gonna ask you after that long spiel, a question is how do you take that individual?

[00:33:34] Ryan: That is a high performer, like an attorney. And then I think, and this is just me, those NFL individuals that are in the NFL management of teams, I think that takes it to a whole nother level. So how do you work between those two types of individuals?

[00:33:51] Emily: First of all. I don’t think we can stereotype as much as we’d like to be able to.

[00:33:57] Emily: I’m telling you, first of all, the, the folks that I’m supporting who work in NFL management, They’re like the sweetest people. They’re so sweet. And they’re talking about balance. They’re talking about how much they care about their family. It’s not what you might think. Go and performance.

[00:34:13] Emily: And it’s really interesting. And we’ve already talked about the folks I’m supporting in law too. I think a lot of them are coming to someone. Who has life coach in their title. I call myself an executive life and leadership coach now. Because that was the best at some point I’m like, how could I just describe what I’m doing?

[00:34:30] Emily: I think people are coming to someone like me because they care about their career and the other stuff. So I will say that performance is important, but a lot of times I’m helping them. I over and over, I do this exercise redefining success, and it’s very consistent across the board. We’re talking about a friend of mine, an industry friend of mine just wrote a book.

[00:34:58] Emily: I don’t think it’s been released yet. He let me see a little sneak peek. But in there, he includes the Maram Webster definition of success. And I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but it literally has that traditional idea about fame and. Yeah, and it’s just shocking. And so when I do that exercise with people across the board, It’s this big like aha moment.

[00:35:20] Emily: This is how I’ve been operating. According to that traditional notion I’ve been operating as if achievement at work was my number one value in life. But in reality, how I want to define success is having a happy and healthy family taking care of my family. Doing the things I love. so that’s a really cool point where we identify the gap and then we can start coaching to fill it.

[00:35:50] Emily: Okay. How do we make this shift? Everyone has so many options that they do not realize, and I think that’s a big role of a coach as well, where these people have been operating for so long feeling like I have one path. and I just need to stick my head down and keep working and stick to it. And all of a sudden they’re like, oh shit, I actually have options.

[00:36:16] Emily: I really it’s this light bulb moment. I could leave my job and be okay. We’re always so afraid of getting fired. And I asked him one the other day, what’s the worst case scenario, but we got to a point where he was like, oh my gosh, that actually might be awesome. If I got fired, then I could have the space to explore what I really wanted to do.

[00:36:34] Emily: And it was just this mind blowing moment for, to

[00:36:38] Ryan: have is that person not happy with their job?

[00:36:43] Emily: Not happy is we’d have to flesh that out. It’s like most of these folks, it’s an important career. They’ve worked very hard for they’re making good money. Ah, they’re good aspects.

[00:36:53] Emily: They’re good aspects, but it’s not fulfilling. Something’s missing for them, and there’s always that struggle.

[00:37:00] Ryan: It’s all exterior. Yes, their inners don’t match their outers.

[00:37:05] Emily: Yes. That’s a good way to put it. And I think the other thing is for a lot of folks The other things that matter, like collaboration or some people’s socialization , they may get it at work or in certain jobs.

[00:37:21] Emily: And that works, but then not in other ones or for someone they may have gotten it early on and then over time they feel isolated, another issue for leadership. That’s a common thing we hear, where leaders, when you’re at the top, you’re more on your own. Yep. And same thing with working for yourself.

[00:37:38] Emily: How do you maintain that human need for community and socialization?

[00:37:44] Ryan: I feel that on a daily basis and this journey of podcasting is let me, be introduced to individuals like yourself and others. And I’ve met some really great people. And out of it has come four or five people are like, why don’t we put some type of podcasting slash entrepreneur, spin on stuff and start sharing some struggles that we’ve all had along the journey.

[00:38:07] Ryan: And then invite some people in that are having those struggles and be able to work with them. I’m like, cool. Sign me up because I would love to share that information with people because there’s been so many days that I’m like, man, I’m getting my ass whooped and I gotta get back up. Cuz otherwise the bills don’t get paid.

[00:38:25] Ryan: The food doesn’t get on the table, the rent doesn’t get paid everything and those days.

[00:38:31] Emily: Yeah, no PTO yeah,

[00:38:34] Ryan: no PTO. And I don’t know any other way now at this point, it’s you have to just suck it up buttercup, and you gotta go. And, but it doesn’t mean at the expense of what’s up here between my ears.

[00:38:45] Ryan: You’ve gotta work through that and understand what’s going on. Yeah. But it’s the other aspect to where you’re able to balance some of that out and say, okay, I gotta be persistent and consistent in my journey. But I also have to be persistent, consistent with myself and making sure I’m taking care of myself.

[00:39:03] Ryan: And that’s a balancing act that we all struggle with. I know I struggle with it on a daily basis. The thing that and I’m down a rabbit hole, again, the thing that I wanna ask what, what drew these NFL individuals management individuals to say, I need a coach. What was the tipping point or what are some things that brought ’em to you and said, okay, I’m ready.

[00:39:25] Ryan: So

[00:39:25] Emily: good question. I actually coached them through a coaching platform okay. That I did business through. So that was not a direct relationship. But the I, so the idea there was from corporate. So I like this question because this is an example of companies prioritizing their employee wellbeing.

[00:39:46] Emily: and I love this idea that most coaches, I think doing similar work to me were focusing on two things, performance and wellbeing. Yes. What are you doing and how are you doing and both are equally important. To like we talked about earlier to the company’s outcomes to retention, to fulfillment all of these things.

[00:40:09] Emily: So I just, I give so many kudos to these organizations that are really prioritizing it that are recognizing the value of coaching. And I can tell you. A new client of mine that I met with this week. He was just so grateful and so ecstatic about getting started about development and he has a, he’s currently in leadership.

[00:40:33] Emily: He has a background in leadership and I just think it’s fascinating to see people nowadays where the people who really get. I think when we were talking earlier about a leader who is truly an empowering leader versus a manager in IPEC language, we talk about anabolic energy or leadership versus catabolic.

[00:40:54] Emily: Anabolic is constructive energy. Catabolic is destructive. It’s palpably different. This idea that the energy we bring to the table is contagious. That is a huge part of influencing other people. It’s really interesting to see it from the top where you are putting your money, where your mouth is.

[00:41:15] Emily: I definitely have law firms too, who are sending folks to me and paying for their associates coaching. And it’s a matter of actually. Showing up for your team instead of the age old. I We still have an issue with this, but like the DEI policies or the work life balance policies that started popping up you what, 20 years ago or whatever.

[00:41:40] Emily: And we all just roll our eyes about it. Like it’s bullshit. It’s just on paper. So you have to really show you have to show up and you have to really put your money where your mouth is as the leadership. You have to do the work too. So when you were talking about that, your moment of vulnerability, I’m just over here thinking Ah-huh Uhha self care.

[00:41:59] Emily: I’m not good at it. I think it’s important for coaches to talk about how we receive coaching too. and how we get help too. And we struggle too.

[00:42:07] Ryan: And we’re human beings and we struggle with all types of problems. I struggle with change every single day. It’s, I’m human being, but the, when someone asks me how do you deal with change?

[00:42:18] Ryan: Or how do you deal with struggles? And I’m like, I have a core group of people that I can talk to discuss things with and run ideas. But the other thing is I think we talk, we did talk about it earlier is you talk about meditation. I talk about quiet time. I get up in the morning. I give myself 30 to 45 minutes, no phone, no nothing.

[00:42:38] Ryan: And I just sit there and I think about everything that I’m grateful for and thankful for my life to center me, call me whatever you wanna do. that starts my day. So my day is starting. I’m not all the way up here, already stressed out about all the things I’ve gotta do. It’s more about taking care of myself up here and making sure my heart is still filled, with the things that I’m thankful for.

[00:43:02] Ryan: I To this day, I joke with people, but I always say, what are the four things that you’re the most grateful for? Those are the things you be should be thinking about when you go to bed. And when you wake up in the morning, and. If you can’t be thankful for a roof over your head, close on your back food on the table and your bills paid.

[00:43:20] Ryan: There’s a struggle because that’s, our basic necessities are taken care of. Your four walls are taken care of everything on top of that for me is bonus. And I always, and research backs

[00:43:31] Emily: that up. The psychology research backs that up. It literally has been proven to lead to more happiness. If you are doing my six year old, I, we call it the three things exercise.

[00:43:44] Emily: But Martin Seligman talks about it. Positive psychologist talks about it before you go to bed. And I always say to folks I encourage a lot of my clients to do it. The key though, the key. Because sometimes we’re like, Ugh, it feels superficial. And I don’t feel anything. I think the key is identify what you’re grateful for and then why.

[00:44:04] Emily: Yeah. And the reason is that takes it to another level that helps you identify what you care about most. And also, for example I like to say again from positive psychology, the recommendation is to identify. From the day that you’re grateful for. So let’s say, I say I’m grateful for my son and his friend walking to school together this morning.

[00:44:25] Emily: And they were in like really good moods and it was went really smoothly. And then I asked, why did that happen? So a couple of things there, one pulling back from gratitude for a minute. I can think about my own strengths, which is so important. What did I do? I’m actually killing it as a mom go me.

[00:44:41] Emily: Like I did a good job, getting them together, taking care of my community, helping my friends out, walking their kid. And then the other thing is thinking about the community, your surroundings, and who else made that stuff happen. So that is like enhanced gratitude exercise. I think it’s a really wonderful thing to do.

[00:45:02] Emily: I love what you’re talking about in the morning for my big thing is I work at nights. I work nights, I do 9:00 PM calls, which a lot of times people think is crazy. But the reason. is I start slow in the morning and that has been such a beautiful shift for me. So I have young kids, so I don’t really have the space to be meditating.

[00:45:24] Emily: But in the mornings the way things are, but I get up at seven, no more five 30 alarm. Like I used to set and take it easy. We don’t have to rush. The kids can do a little, play or whatever. And then I take this beautiful walk in my lovely neighborhood to school. And back I walk the dog.

[00:45:43] Emily: I see people in the community. I come back and eat breakfast and I start calls at 10:00 AM. That has really changed my life. And it’s not like a specific activity, but. Stretching that out. And so I’m with you 100%. We have to think about what we need, what works best for us in today’s modern world. If we can adjust our schedule to accommodate it all the better.

[00:46:10] Emily: And and how can we carry that with us throughout the day, that kind of gratitude and appreciation for what you

[00:46:20] Ryan: have. It’s the little things in life. And I joke about that or a tongue in cheek. However you wanna say it, but it’s truly the little things in life that get you to the next steps in where that goes, because I’ve always believed what you put out is what you get back and in who, maybe there’s a saying out there, whatever is.

[00:46:40] Ryan: It. I said the inners have to match the outers. So if you’re negative all the time, guess who you’re surrounding yourself with negative people. Yeah. I mean that, that’s just unfortunate. But if you’re thankful and you’re positive and you try to work towards something better in your life, you surround yourself with those individuals and me putting out the podcast.

[00:46:58] Ryan: I think that’s also done another level for me because now it’s attracting a ton of guests that have come on and. I there’s not a single guess that I don’t take a huge of huge amount of nuggets from and say, oh my God, that’s like cool earth changing or earth shattering, whatever. But it’s just refreshing to hear how so many people out there have these great ideas and they’re living their lives the way they want to live and sharing.

[00:47:29] Ryan: because that’s the key to everything is share and help as many people as you possibly can. And I joke if I help one person with the podcast, I’m golden, but I know I’m helping more than that, but that’s the great joy I have in podcasting is getting my voice out there, meeting wonderful people like yourself and just having healthy conversations.

[00:47:49] Ryan: Like we are.

[00:47:49] Emily: And I think it also, it’s interesting. I’ve always thought it was interesting and I haven’t been working for myself for very long, but I’ve heard it time and time again, how it could be lonely as an entrepreneur. So entrepreneur yeah, I’ve never experienced that because I started doing this on my own during COVID.

[00:48:05] Emily: I started my business right before COVID hit and. I’ve been connecting with people virtually the entire time. I have so many networking conversations. In my last job, traditional job, I didn’t need to network. I just, it was that kind of job where I did my work and I went home. I liked it like that.

[00:48:25] Emily: And and it, like I said, it was, I wasn’t going anywhere. I wasn’t gonna network my way up to the top or switch. I was at a university. I wasn’t gonna switch universities. So it’s really been interesting for me where I always say now I’ve chosen colleagues. Frankly, more chosen conversations.

[00:48:44] Emily: And also working from home has been really wonderful. For me. I know a lot of people experience microaggressions in the workplace and have appreciated being away from that. Not that I was experiencing that so much, but it’s the similar idea of just the anxious energy from the office personally.

[00:49:03] Emily: I totally feel anxious when people are like whispering in the office, outside my door and it’s just distraction, energy. So yeah, just being able to be in my home. And having no self-consciousness about how I’m spending my time. Of course I can certainly, do the mindset work around that too, but but it was such an easy fix, to work for myself. And just eliminate that immediately. So it’s been an interesting transition and I think it’s important for everyone to be thinking about that. Chosen colleagues, chosen conversations and chosen work at the end of the.

[00:49:37] Ryan: Amen to that. That’s going after your passion and doing what you love and surrounding yourself with people that are gonna support you in that tribe, your community.

[00:49:46] Ryan: That’s huge. I’m I’m with you a hundred percent Emily. It wow. We’ve got an hour. Woo. Guess everyone’s gonna have to listen for the full hour here. How can the listeners get ahold of you if they’d like to reach out to you for some leadership.

[00:50:00] Emily: Yes. So my website is HRS Secor. My last name, coaching.com.

[00:50:05] Emily: That’s H I R S E K O R N. coaching.com. You can get all the scoop on there. Also accessible by email emily@hrssecorcoaching.com. You can find me on LinkedIn I’m on Instagram and happy to share information. On free consults chat with anyone, answer questions by email, got some exciting program programming that I’m gonna be launching very soon.

[00:50:30] Emily: I’m developing it right now. It’s going to be leadership development programming, really ideal for folks who are in leadership roles, but also rising leaders. So I’ve noticed over the past few years that there’s a gap in the market. For people who are up and coming. And I think it’s important for corporate to recognize that they’ve invested quite a bit in those folks.

[00:50:53] Emily: And when there’s a hot lateral market, it’s nice to work, to retain them. In addition to of course doing the right thing and supporting their folks. So that’s a program that’s gonna be rolling out. It’s a six month program, lots of good structure for the folks who crave structure and then also some one-on-one coaching as.

[00:51:13] Ryan: Awesome. I will put all your contact information in the show notes so they can get ahold of you too. Perfect. So that’ll be easy peasy there, Emily. Thank you for coming on the show. Very honored, healthy conversation. Love what you’re doing. Love your approach. Couldn’t be couldn’t be a better conversation whatsoever.

[00:51:30] Ryan: We’re talking about attorneys, my favorite topic at. Tongue in cheek and it was cool to hear some of your stories. That’s the best thing about podcasting. I get to learn other people’s stories.

[00:51:41] Emily: Thank you, Ryan. Thank you for having me. I agree. We realized really quickly we click, we got something to comment.

[00:51:47] Emily: Yeah. Our style. So it was good. Thank you. It was fun. It was

[00:51:50] Ryan: fun. And it’s a healthy conversation and we can go back and forth and we can definitely have you come back on and we can talk about some of your new stuff when it comes out.

[00:51:57] Emily: That’d be great. Thank you.

[00:51:59] Ryan: Awesome. Thank you for coming on.

[00:52:01] Ryan: Thank you so much. You.

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